Lord
Holme responds to Christian Aid calls for corporate accountability laws
 |
| Lord Holme: we have
a common shared planetary interest in having a stable environment |
Below is the transcript
of Lord Holme's TV studio appearance with Christian Aid spokesperson, Daniel Graymore
- Channel 4 News, UK, Friday 9 August.
MARK EASTON: Presenter
It's being billed as the last chance to save the planet. Sixty-five thousand people
from 174 countries meet in Johannesburg later this month for the second ever Earth
Summit, discussing how to cure the world's environment and development problems,
but already big business and the Green lobby are clashing over the way ahead.
The Summit's key objective is to tackle Third World poverty by promoting what
they call sustainable development, encouraging companies to invest in poor countries
without exploiting local people or their resources. But now the charity Christian
Aid claims the agenda for the Summit is being watered down after pressure from
powerful multi-nationals. They've released documents which suggest an early draft
agenda called for a 'multi-lateral agreement' on rules to make business accountable,
but this was soon diluted to 'a framework' and now just promises to 'promote'
best practice. Environmentalists say it's proof that big business puts profit
before the planet, business leaders say tough rules would 'decrease investment'
in the world's poorest areas.
So with just over a fortnight to go before the Summit opens, business and environment
alists
are at each other's throats. Representatives from either side of the argument
are here tonight: Lord Holme is Vice Chairman of the group representing business
at the Earth Summit, and Daniel Graymore is from the charity Christian Aid.
Daniel Graymore, what you appear to be alleging in this then is that business
groups like the one that Lord Holme here represents, have successfully pressurised
this Summit into watering down the agenda to put… less effect on the poor?
DANIEL GRAYMORE: Trade Policy
Officer, Christian Aid
Well, certainly. I mean Christian Aid's main concern is that what we will see
coming out of Johannesburg will be a series of business friendly initiatives
emphasising public private partnerships, deregulation, trade liberalisation
and with the emphasis placed very much on corporate investment in developing
countries as opposed to actually very strong meaningful commitments to eradicating
poverty and addressing environmental problems.
MARK EASTON:
You want tough rules, you want tough rules.
DANIEL GRAYMORE:
We want this opportunity, this new opportunity that's coming through WSSD is
not being matched by corporate accountability, which is a framework of regulations
to whole companies to human rights and environmental standards.
MARK EASTON:
Okay. Well, Lord Holme, there's the allegation, has your organisation been pushing
the organisers of this Summit to put, as I've said, the planet before…
or profits before the planet?
LORD HOLME: Business Action
Sustainable Development
Well, I think that that sort of high coloured rhetoric comes very ill from Channel
4 and I'm slightly surprised at Danny taking this tone because there are about
six hundred items in the implementation agreement which the governments are
discussing with each other, the one he's motoring on is one single one out of
that, which is this issue which we can come back to, of how to report on progress,
but good organisations like Christian Aid and responsible business leaders have
so much in common trying to make this Earth Summit a success. I mean we have
a common shared planetary interest in having a stable environment, in having
a proper remediation of poverty, in having an atmosphere in which people can
get on with decent lives all over the world. So although it makes good television
to say we're at each other's throats I don't actually think that's the case
although I'd be extremely happy to address this issue of how best to report
without hurting investment in developing countries.
MARK EASTON:
Okay. Well look that.. it does seem to me though that any summit on the future
of development in the developing world it's going to come down to whether we
can trust big business to do it without exploiting the people and the environment.
LORD HOLME:
Well, let me give you a couple of examples of why it's so important to take
a partnership view of this. First of all - I think maybe Danny was implicitly
referring to this - is the question of overseas development assistance, what
we call aid. How do you get aid working with private capital investment in the
Third World? Aid may be creating the infrastructure so investment will follow
it. Now we're engaged, business leaders, my organisation, engaged in detailed
discussions about how to get more mileage out of the investment in the Third
World, and the interesting thing about this reporting issue, which is the one
that brought us all here this evening, is that if you talk to the lea
ders of
the developing countries, and none of them are standing up and saying we want
tough new rules to stop investment, they're desperate to get investment working
together with foreign aid, they're desperate to get their products having access
to first world markets….(all talking together)…
MARK EASTON:
(interrupting) But Daniel Graymore, of course we do need.. we're going to need
business to get the kind of development that we need but can.. but do you think
that we can trust them without the kind of hard regulation that Christian Aid
wants?
DANIEL GRAYMORE:
Well I think this is fundamentally the problem, I mean clearly we need investment
and developing countries want investment, the question is are voluntary commitments
to high ethical standards good enough, and the evidence is they really are not.
I mean I'm very sorry but the mining industry is a very interesting example
in this area, a lot of mining companies, your own included, Lord Home, and Rio
Tinto, have been accused of a great many human rights environmental problems
over the years, the question is are new-found commitments, voluntary commitments
of high ethical standards going to really change that, and lots of people suggest
that actually there's not a great deal of change to be seen - or it's very hard
to actually see how it's done….
MARK EASTON:
(interrupting) But isn't there a risk that perhaps the smaller companies just
won't invest? Lord Holme, I mean is there… what will they do, how will
companies react if they're forced into regulation?
LORD HOLME:
The big companies, the Shells, the BPs, the Rio Tintos - and incidentally I
don't accept for a moment what Danny said, the mining industry has been one
of the leaders in promoting the idea of sustainable development, but leave that
on one side for a moment - the danger is that if you impose these sort of high
NGO-led northern standards and say this is the one size fits all framework we're
going to fit on business - you see, it won't hurt the big companies because
they have departments full of lawyers who specialise in compliance - what it
will hurt… what it will hurt is the small and medium enterprises whose
investment is so desperately needed because they don't have the staff to deal
with these sorts of excessive requirements, and that's the problem.
MARK EASTON:
Lord Holme, Daniel Graymore, thank you both very much indeed.